After finding no answers from talking to experts, I decided to do my own research by talking to women I came across in everyday life.
I wrote about some of my experiences and conclusions and then asked women whether they would be willing to read what I had written. I made it clear that there was no obligation for reviewers to comment.
The first point to note is just how difficult it is to approach anyone on such a sensitive and personal subject. I quickly realised that very few women appeared amenable enough for me to dare even to ask them.
We can be fairly sure that a man is unlikely to object to or be insulted by a random reference to sex. It is much less certain that a woman will not be offended. Even as a woman, talking openly about sex and orgasm can easily come across as odd and even a little perverted.
I only approached women who I thought might have a sense of humour in the hope that even if they were embarrassed they wouldn’t take irreversible offence. Even so, few were willing to comment.
“Many women find it very difficult to talk about sex with their male partners. More than a quarter of the women with whom I have discussed the subject say that they never talk to their partners about things they might do to improve lovemaking.” (p117 Woman’s Experience of Sex 1983)
Even fewer women can explain how they orgasm during sex
Silence is difficult to interpret. Were they shocked, angry or embarrassed? I’ll never know. Of those who did comment they probably fell into five groups:
(1) Those who were ‘shocked’ by explicitly sexual behaviour. They assumed that a woman’s sexual experiences more properly revolve around a loving relationship. See: A sexual relationship and Female masturbation is relatively uncommon.
(2) Those who were confident that orgasm during sex just ‘happens’ the first time and every time. They drew comfort from popular beliefs about female sexuality: Bluffers, fakers and sex surveys and Some women never tune into eroticism.
(3) Those who were sexually ‘jaded’. One woman in her late thirties, career and no children, said that all her friends agreed that women don’t get anything out of sex. Women accept sex because they want a relationship (for companionship or family).
(4) Those who had the same experience as me and could only orgasm from masturbation alone. See: Women’s sex drive to orgasm during sex and Sex advice for women is often misleading.
(5) Those who were confident about orgasm and were able to explain their experiences. These women were relatively relaxed about talking about orgasm. A couple of these explained orgasm with a partner either (A) by masturbation or (B) by using a position. They recognised the need for clitoral stimulation and also admitted to using fantasies during sex for arousal.
(A) Women who masturbate during intercourse: The women I spoke to (see: Applying orgasm techniques to sex and Reaching orgasm) learnt to combine masturbation and sex early on so perhaps they developed fantasies in line with reality.
(B) Women who find a position for intercourse: One woman described this approach to me (see: Positions and techniques for sexual intercourse) but the political correctness of this solution makes me doubt. I also question whether women used to direct clitoral stimulation during masturbation would be able to benefit from this approach, which provides little clitoral stimulation.
well a lot of women that i know deny masturbation in the first place. secondly the lack of openness in discussion with your partner about sex and orgasm is only because the guy usually gets offended or acts retarded once you state that you never experienced an orgasm instead of working on things which is what we usually do if they ever complained.
Thanks for your comment.
My findings are that very few women masturbate. A woman is lucky if she discovers orgasm at all.
Lack of female orgasm during sex is certainly a taboo topic. It is only women who mastubate who realise that orgasm is missing from sex. To be fair on men, they have difficulty understanding because their own orgasm is so easily achieved. Men tend to feel responsible and they are often blamed for a woman not experiencing orgasm during sex.
This is wrong. It’s nobody’s fault. It’s just that Nature never intended for women to orgasm during sex. Female orgasm is not required for reproduction and so a woman is lucky if she ever experiences orgasm.
Many women never orgasm throughout the whole of their lives. Many others only orgasm during masturbation alone. It takes courage and perseverance for a couple to work on ways of bringing some sensual and erotic pleasure to sex for the woman’s enjoyment.
Hopefully, with some sympathetic encouragement, more men will be willing to explore a greater variety of ways of stimulating their partner than simply through intercourse to male orgasm.
I do not believe that women are as down-trodden as they are often portrayed. We look for different benefits (other than orgasm) from a relationship. If the wider relationship is not working then the sex also tends to flounder.
most women dont masterbate cuz they dont need too
It has dawned on me, that somehow I have been able to tell the difference between women I am attracted to that are sexual and those who are not. With that information, my interest usually wanes with those who are not. And this knowledge is by no means with hundreds — it actually is limited to nine women and I am in my early 50s. I cannot seem to communicate unless they are too. And my relationship has always been better with earnest communication.
I’ve been masturbating since I was twelve years old so I know how to bring myself to orgasm. I’m married to a man who knows how to bring me to multiple orgasm with his tongue. I’m fortunate. I think a lot of women deny themselves sexual pleasure out of guilt…mostly from religion and conservative upbringing. Some women are simply more sexual than others.
I haven’t actually talked to a woman who uses oral sex for orgasm with a partner.
I assume that you use fantasy during masturbation and during sex? If not, I would be interested to know how you obtain sufficient psychological arousal for orgasm.
Very few women ever learn to masturbate to orgasm. You say that you have masturbated since the age of 12 and this is extremely young for a woman. The women I have spoken to were mostly in their twenties and thirties when they discovered orgasm.
You must have had an interesting childhood to be already fantasising by the time you were 12 years old. What influences do you think made your experience different to average?
I have also never met a woman who could verify that multiple orgasm is possible. I find that my clit is way too sensitive after orgasm to come again without waiting a while (like a man has to). I have assumed that multiple orgasm is in fact simply peaks of arousal.
If you can be explicit it really helps other women understand whether we are talking about the same experiences. Many women apparently masturbate without ever reaching orgasm. So it’s difficult to know for sure.
Hope you not offended by my asking…
Sorry to say this, but I think, actually I am certain, that your informal sample of “people you have run into”, has you say has led you to some very distorted conclusions which I suspect may be colored by your own ideas.
Lots of women LOVE sex. Most of them figure out how to do it right — or to get their man/men to do what pleases them. Many women I know are incredibly vocal (should I say communicative?), understanding and in tune with their sexuality.
I would offer this criticism in the hope that it helps. I don’t intend to insult you in any way. You have put light on an intesely interesting subject.
i think this goes both ways…few men can talk openly with their partners.…its a shame really because in this game, one gets whatever one gives !
well this for sure highlights a whole different aspects but it really comes down to one thing– if you know how to communicate it and get it right out of your man!
Thanks for all the comments.
I am often told that I have managed to find only women of an incredibly rare type over the last ten years and more. Apparently no one else has the same experience of talking to women about sex.
I am very happy to believe that women are sexual, interested in sex and enthusiastic about sex. It’s just that none of these women is willing to discuss their experiences in detail.
So far they all prefer to make comments full of bravado but it is not clear that they even know what orgasm is because they are not willing to explain how they achieve it.
I have been talking to women in everyday life — very different to surveys of women who want to publicise their sexual experiences. This website has also had 50–100 visitors a day for over a year now but so far very few women are willing to be specific.
A couple of women have been hugely defensive and have insisted that women enjoy sex as much as men do. They have no answers for why women rarely masturbate, rarely use pornography and rarely pay for sex. Some suggest that women are repressed (by men) and others that women don’t have as much money as men (for a porn mag…?).
Often when women say that they enjoy sex, they then talk about love. They seem confused when I ask about sexual arousal and orgasm. One woman thought it was a trick question. I’m simply saying if sex is so good then what is good — is it just ‘love’ or is there something more?
If there is something more (e.g. true sexual arousal), why all the secrecy and embarrassment? Why not share the techniques that women use for orgasm? I’m just pointing out that women don’t talk about these things because they are not confident of their experiences of sexual arousal and orgasm.
Please direct all the sexually confident women you know to my website or to this discussion. So far, no woman has been able to explain how she achieves sexual arousal with a lover.
Women do not become aroused enough for orgasm by simply looking at the naked male body. If they did, they would buy porn mags (these are available because male homosexual porn is full of male gentials).
I feel I can talk about arousal very easily
Thanks for bringing a little humour to the discussion — I assume you are male.
You can laugh (and rightly too because this subject all too often causes people to lose their sense of humour) but women have much more difficulty understanding their sexuality than men typically do.
The false images all over the media and throughout erotic fiction portraying women as easily orgasmic make it difficult for women to discuss their sexuality openly. Real women feel sexually inadequate when compared to these much more appealing images of ‘sexual’ women.
Very few women are confident of how orgasm is achieved. Most who are base their knowledge of orgasm on their experience of masturbation. Such women are today categorised as sexually dysfunctional. This is wrong because they are, in fact, only women who are sexually experienced enough to know that orgasm is missing from sex with a partner.
Interesting topic. Here’s the deal–I think women today are much more aware of their bodies than say even 20 years ago. Your quote,“Many women find it very difficult to talk about sex with their male partners. More than a quarter of the women with whom I have discussed the subject say that they never talk to their partners about things they might do to improve lovemaking.” (p117 Woman’s Experience of Sex 1983)” is a bit dated. A lot has changed over the last 27 years. Women have become sexually emancipated in a sense. What no one would talk about 20 + years ago, people talk about openly now. Just look at television commercials. In the past 10 years alone they have become much more sexual. Face it, sex (whether we like it or not) sells. 25 years ago, no one would think of going to a sex therapist, and today this is a booming field! I am not 25 years old, and I do have a few girlfriends I can freely discuss masturbation with–even in the context of what works in bed, etc. And of these friends… all (most of who are in committed relationships or marriages), admit to enjoying sex immensely. I think the topic is interesting, but the angle is a bit dated.
PS. After reading your comment(s), I thought I would add a bit more. You know, there is no getting around it–women have been sexually exploited and suppressed, and there is no doubt that much of these issues came about with religious thinking. The thing is, women lived very suppressed for centuries, and only at the turn of the 19th century did they even begin to enjoy some of the liberties that men did. So, right off the bat you are dealing with societal mores that helped to establish a woman’s acceptance, and/or the allowance of any type of sexual freedom. For centuries, men have been allowed to have sexual relations with whomever and whenever. Even within the confines of religion, we see leaders, kings, artists, noblemen, etc. talk and experience a much more open, freer mindset. Literary scholars like Shakespeare even humorously addressed the sexual suppression of women in plays like, “The Taming of the Shrew,” and “As You Like It,” etc.
The thing is–while it is certain women have been suppressed in this arena, there are basic psychological differences in the way that men and women experience arousal, but to assume that “nature” never intended for a woman to organism during sex is a bit harsh. I think perhaps you are trying to compare apples and oranges. Men and women can “both” enjoy sex, but the way they experience it, and how this plays out is always going to be different, because they are simply not the same physiologically or emotionally. If masturbation is part of the woman’s experience or process to climax, then that’s ok.
You also mention,“I am very happy to believe that women are sexual, interested in sex and enthusiastic about sex. It’s just that none of these women is willing to discuss their experiences in detail.” I am curious. Based on this comment and your reference to women never talking about how they actually achieve orgasm, etc., how many men actually sit around and discuss how they achieved orgasm? I mean, when a man says, “I’m turned on,” we all know what that means. We might find a man discussing his every play in the middle of a locker room, but it’s doubtful that he is going to talk about his foreplay, or his masturbating techniques at a dinner party. Doubtful that this guy is going to freely discuss his fantasies at a business luncheon.
Yes, I do agree with you that women’s sexuality has been grossly understated, and that they have not had the same liberties as men, but I do not agree with you that women are not supposed to enjoy sex.
I am not saying that women cannot ‘enjoy sex’. I am asking how women experience sexual arousal and orgasm. There is plenty of evidence to show that women have more difficulty enjoying sexual arousal and orgasm during sex. There is also evidence to show that female orgasm is much easier to achieve through masturbation alone.
These are the facts. If you dispute them perhaps you can provide your facts, evidence or quote an expert conclusion. I don’t believe that women have been especially repressed or suppressed in the past or now. Women simply don’t have anything like the sex drive that men have.
I have masturabated regularly since 17, keep a library of erotic literature and sex manuals, watch porn movies with my partner and engage on regular sex sessions with my partner. I don’t meet many women with the same level of interest in sex. My partners have all masturbated from a much younger age and on a daily basis. They want sex pretty much all the time. I have never been able to enjoy the same sexual arousal and orgasm with a partner as I do during masturbation.
I am not saying that women can’t enjoy sex but that I don’t understand HOW they can enjoy sex when they are so easily offended by pornography or any explicit sexual reference. Most women I talk to are not interested in orgasm and very few think that masturbation is normal for women.
I am talking about normal everyday women you might meet in the supermarket etc. not just your mates. If all your friends masturbate and you all talk openly about how you achieve orgasm with a partner then there are many women out there (including myself) who would like to know how you achieve this.
I guess they believe that is private!
Thanks for your support.
Yes I understand that such things are private. But I find it strange that so few women want to talk about the pleasures of orgasm.
Men certainly express their enjoyment of sex. It would seem that relatively few women discover the joys of the clitoris.